Conversations With Abraham & Machiventa
New Zealand Group
4 October 1989
Conversation with Abraham and Machiventa Melchizedek
Charles: You have said there are many such as Ruby, is this a new way of teaching on this plane?
Abraham: New but old
Charles: I know this kind of communication has been recorded for hundred of years but are we now at a time when it will be commonly used? Humankind will have to be aware of trickery!
Abraham: Correct, your own integrity and wisdom shall assist you to discern. You see it has been said – the time for physical (note: appearance) has passed. You may observe this in many areas of humankind”s existence in your time. Communication through your air-waves has increased too. You space communication from nation to nation is fast. Many, many years before, one nation was unaware of another simply because there was not this communication. Your planet is more united in it”s people through this communication you have. The communication we have with you shall serve humankind to become aware of the other worlds, the other Beings who inhabit your Universe.
Charles: One of my concerns is that with this amount of teaching through minds such as Rubys, distortion could take place. Each receiver will naturally express thoughts in a different way. Are teachers such as you also teaching in a differing way to each other? Because I am confused at times and this could lead to agitation and arguments as you know. Seth”s teachings would be a good example for us.
Abraham: I am aware of what you speak. In your education system there are set subjects — name one.
Abraham: You may find twelve teachers of English, all having the basic content to deliver but each imparts something of him or herself in the manner in which they teach this subject, English. In turn each student receives the information in an individual manner, differing each to each. So, if each student of these twelve teachers were to discuss their lessons they may all vary but still contain the same basic principles of the subject. In this manner teachings such as this appear to differ and, given the method of communication, variation must of natural occur, although the basic subject matter remains the same.
Charles: Seth was on teacher speaking through Jane Roberts. Abraham speaking through Ruby. The Urantia Papers it seems, although coming to one unnamed person had various teachers, yet with the same style and content can you explain this to me?
Abraham: Correct. Each group of teachers, and there are many, who delivered these papers had a message to deliver and did so. From the Melchizedeks you received one subject matter for example. From The Evening Star Corps you received a different subject. Throughout you can find a thread of sameness but the content is different. The thread of sameness is Truth and the person who received this information.
Charles: Ruby has had three teachers: Bertha, Abraham and Melchizedek. Evolving and that certain sameness yet with different content.
Abraham: If I were to give you a “paper” word for word verbatim, paper 194 as example. You already have this, why give again. There is much that has been received before times it does not need repetition. The only constant is the Truth of God. Humankind vary so much in their understanding of communications such as this, that it must grow with the understanding of the experience.
12 October 1989
Charles: We have more correspondence from America to read to you, I shall not read the whole letter only the questions. The letter is from B.B. His first question concerns the correcting time which I think has bee well covered. The second is “What admonitions are give to the vanguard?”
Machiventa: Ah, yes. To understand the correcting time, to understand each part each has in this. Is not the “vanguard” the fore runner? From this information is passed on.
Charles: The next letter from B.J. contains a letter to Abraham and yourself, it reads:
“Greetings to my Elder Brother Machiventa Melchizedek and Abraham, Please accept my profound gratitude for answering my questions and most especially for the Divine Wisdom that I deem a life would be well spent in applying and sharing, and particularly on Jesus Birthday which you too, must celebrate. Sir, for the sake of clarity and wholeheartedness, would you please confirm the validity of or release me from the error of the Angelic Liaison Project? Please use me in any manner you see fit, regardless of any lack of courage on my part. Nevertheless, Our Father”s Will be done. With Love, your fellow servant.”
Machiventa: Thank you, your wishes are received. You wish release from the Angelic Liaison, if this is your desire you have the power within yourself to accomplish such release. My instructions to your fried are in your own words, The Father”s Will be done. Thank you for your kindness in your correspondence. End of message.
The thin line of communication which you have thrown is spreading to others you are not aware of. The response in number is less than the number who received, but no matter those who have fore-thought and vision are being found by this line of communication.
Charles: I shall read the next letter from M.N. in full.
September 18, 1989
PO Box 1056
Dear Mac & Benjamin,
Thanks for sending me your responses from Abraham and Melchizedek. Gee golly, if I”d know that I was to have a personal audience, I may have written something more lofty, noble, or intelligent. But then again, maybe not. If you can”t be yourself in this big creation, then what”s the point?
I have to say, I was most impressed with the calligraphy of Benjamin. Really outstanding style. Since my own writing is awful, I”m appreciative of anyone who can make a legible handwritten document. I wish I could say the same for Melchizedek and Abraham. I don”t mean to be irreverent, but I found their responses lacking. (I know their reply: “I find Matt (from Florida) lacking.” Laughter in the background.) When you read the sections in the Urantia Book, written by a Melchizedek, you come away impressed at the sentence syntax, the flowing style, the extraordinary synthesis of ideas. It rings true, renewing your soul for higher spiritual strivings. The following passage, for example, fostered enough courage in me to leave an authoritarian religion:
Faith has falsified its trust when it presumes to deny realities and to confer upon its devotees assumed knowledge. Faith is a traitor when it fosters betrayal of intellectual integrity and belittles loyalty to supreme values an divine ideals. Faith never shuns the problem-solving duty of mortal living. Living faith does not foster bigotry, persecution, or intolerance.
Faith does not shackle the creative imagination, neither does it maintain an unreasoning prejudice toward the discoveries of scientific investigation. Faith vitalizes religion and constrains the religionist heroically to live the golden rule. The zeal of faith is according to knowledge, and its strivings are the preludes to sublime peace. (Urantia Book Page 1113-5 Presented by a Melchizedek of Nebadon).
Contrast the above with the following from your interview with Melchizedek:
My answer to your friend is this .. Obviously planetary management is diverse, is large. Certainly part of my “management” must before Urantia and its peoples, therefore “time” is allotted for this. Surely this is understandable? Why New Zealand? It is young, it is fresh. Persons are young and are fresh. Persons are willing and able to assist in this management ministry.
We enjoy the humorous also. You see it is natural for persons to doubt, to query. Queries are welcome. You see the man Jesus also was queried, and would be again, yes. So as we have said before-times, preparation must be good, has been good.
The land is tilled,
????????????The seed is sown,
????????????Germination is commencing and,
????????????soon flowering will occur for Harvest …
Can you see the difference in quality, if not in content? I mean, “person are young and fresh.” And that poem? It would have been better:
????????????Roses are red
????????????Violets are blue.
????????????The Correcting Time is here,
????????????and I”m looking for you!
And by the way, Abraham, you are a ghost! You happen to be a deceased ancestor of mine. I descend from you loins, so to speak. I even named my son Isaac. Four generations ago, my ancestors converted from the Jewish to the Christian faith. By definition, that is what a ghost is: a deceased ancestor that returns to communicate with the living. And calling me a jester, Abraham? I could say a few things about your conduct in the flesh, but the “golden rule” restrains me.
I could go on, but there is one last thing I would like to say. I was wrong, ghosts can come back and communicate with the living. It even says so in the big blue book. They have to wait for the closure of a dispensation, through. That makes you eligible to return, Abraham. And God didn”t have to bend the rules, as Melchizedek suggested. (I am a little disappointed that neither of you knew that. I mean, it must have come up in the past with all those students wanting to come back and study our primitive culture.)
So, is the correcting time here? Yes. Is Machiventa Melchizedek present now? Maybe. Why not? Do you have a direct channel to him? Not from the correspondence that you sent me. Do I still have to go to work every morning, pay taxes, and brush my teeth? Yes.
Machiventa: I accept your comments. It would be foolish to enter in an argument, discussion justifying the manner in which this communication is being delivered as opposed to the method of communication delivering the Urantia Book. This statement does not imply that I am unwilling to enter into such discussions, simply that it is foolish and serves no purpose. Of course closure of a dispensation equals God changing rules, “Bending” / changing? Closure of a dispensation causes change to occur. But as I have said I do not intend to enter into a discussion on semantics. The Urantia Book and the Papers contained therein are full and complete in themselves. There is no need to repeat these Papers, they are their entirety. This communication is to expand, if you will, using the Urantia Book as a base of such further expansion. Have I made myself clear? Is my sentence syntax to your liking? If there are further comments you wish to discuss I am happy to do this. I enjoy intelligent discussion. There is a time and a place for jesting, for tongue in cheek comment. I would prefer facetiousness to be put aside in serious discussion. Nonetheless I am happy to have received word from you. End of comment.
Abraham: Intellectual, academic teaching and learning are important, but also the feeling, spiritual teaching and learning are equal in importance. There must be a joining of both to achieve a whole understanding. In one letter it has been mentioned “The Father”s Will Be Done”: The answer given was also “To do the Father”s Will” I ask you What is the Father”s Will? The Father”s Will is infinite. To allow yourself to expand your thought to the Universe Father and to recognize the God dwelling within yourself and to be guided in all your thought, feeling and action by this God part, so that your Will becomes the Father”s Will. You still have freedom of Will within this.
Then, Greetings to our friend Matt: – My Friend, Teacher”s answer was somewhat stern. It is intended for you to search your thought and your feeling behind the action of your communication. Your natural sceptisism is appreciated. Blind Faith is not a Living Faith. Blind Faith is not expected. Living Faith leads to Revelation. Revelation is Life-giving and this in turn reinforces Living Faith. Because your communication was somewhat disguised in “humor” your intention is not clear. Do you require proof? But of course! In which manner this proof may be give for you is not simple. What is proof for you is not necessarily proof for others. Each individual must arrive at his/her own Living Faith. I refer you to Paper 194, perhaps this shall assist your acceptance. Perhaps we shall have the pleasure of further discussion?
Be guide by your Inner voice in all things you contemplate, in all things which require thought, feeling, action, understanding. But be ever allowing yourself room for expansion of your won path of thought, feeling, action, understanding. Shalom.
19 October 1989 Read in the presence of Abraham
Hello Everyone, I just finished reading the material that you sent me and I am quite excited about what I”ve read – although it is somewhat sparse. I was hoping to receive some of the information that you have been receiving since 1984. Perhaps you are needing to put it in a booklet form in order to accommodate all the inquiries you”ve had sent to you. Could you let me know the status of this?
I hardly know where to begin with this letter. So much of it is in line with the information I”ve gotten over the past 6 years. Sometimes these phenomenon seems like such a lonely path yet with patience substantiation does come forth, from some unusual places, yes?
I would like to share a number of things with you that will probably end up as questions at the end of this letter.
First of all the matter of those humans who have left the planet being able to contact us. It is my understanding, from studying with a small but powerful group last year, that after a dispensation this is possible to do. As we all know there was a dispensation when Jesus left the planet. Abraham would fit into this category of people living before this time. So if this theory is correct then his contacting us is possible.
Secondly, I am quite interested in the topic of free will choice. I have been working quite hard to explain to people that as a Group Consciousness we as a planet have the ability to choose, to request celestial intervention and help. If enough people are making this request then it appears to me that the Supreme moves towards (us away from) a planet. This then appears to trigger all manner of Celestial response and help. They in their work, along with human beings towards the spiritual upliftment of that planet. I find it amusing at times that some Urantia Book readers refuse to open up to this possibility. It is such a natural possibility it seems to me, and those who read this Book have such a gift in understanding who these Beings might be! I also feel that if enough work of this nature is being done that a Machiventa or Abraham type personality would be summoned to assist in the next phase of spiritual upliftment.
Abraham: Correct. I have said before times we are unable to intervene in the affairs of humankind until or unless the majority request such assistance and intervention, and this is occurring in your time, this is the correcting time.
Regarding the idea of coming Planetary upheaval, I have maintained, almost from the first time I heard about the doom and gloom forecasts for our planet that something was terribly amiss. I made it a point never to buy into any of these ideas because I knew that if I gave my attention to these os called prophesies that they could indeed happen. In fact, I sometimes wonder if Caligastia might have his hand in spreading this fear, after all what better way to disrupt the growth of the new spiritual energies than through undermining love with fear.
Abraham: Correct. I shall answer, not so much Caligastia himself but rather there are many person who have they believe a Puritan mind concept of Life, morality. Some of these person become over burdened with the puritanical and become tyrannical in their puritanism and so go forth into the world proclaiming that any such person not of a puritan mind, morality shall forever be cast into sin and hell. Therefore what could be a good value, for example, Puritan, can become quite the opposite. You see there is always two sides. Continue with the letter.
Again I feel that if enough people went into their anxieties that we could create these very catastrophes.
At some point I came to understand that this shift is in consciousness – that is when the upheavals are occurring. The upheavals mean to me that many of us are being forced to let go of old, non working ways of being to clear ourselves for the new energies that are hitting the planet. Not much fun but necessary. We are workers with much to do. Sometimes the letting go is quite painful. What keeps many of us holding on is that we know we have to do this, or that somewhere, somehow we”ve chosen to do this.
I”ve just re-read this letter and I hope you don”t mind my going on like this – but it so wonderful to be able to share this information in detail. There”s so much that”s happening and has happened in my life. If your contacts are real it”s going to be opening a whole new scope to many of our lives. It will give so much confirmation to the fact that trusting God”s outworkings has been worth all the confusion, struggling (humor) and un-certainties that have bewildered so many of us. I never seem to understand what is happening at the moment – but in retrospect it always makes sense.
Abraham: Yes and so much is in this manner. You see the time is past for a “physical appearance.” In these times it is all Higher Consciousness. Yes and a great trust in yourself, in God, must be built upon. Yes, for all humankind. It is difficult and we are understanding this difficulty, but it is also of simplicity, yes it is of difficulty for humankind to be of simplicity. continue with letter.
I too, got a sense that the circuits were slowly being turned back or that to just turn on all circuits would be a total shock to our systems. Crystals started coming into my life about 3 years ago and I feel certain that they are playing a major role in this happening. I received some messages about this at the time and while I don”t pretend to understand the total ramifications of these circuits being activated – I would certainly love to know more.
Abraham: Crystals are a great method for transmission. Do not worship the crystal power out of proportion. Crystal is a transmitter and is used in transmitting and receiving, an extension of all there is. Humankind physically are dense. Crystal are the opposite. The crystal allows the transmission of energy to be passed on from the Universe. This is clear for you? And, you see, Higher Consciousness is of such fragility of wavelength, it is not always possible to be received through the denseness of the physical body. This is the reason why you are encouraged to the “stillness” (note: meditation) to relieve some of the denseness of the physical for you to receive Higher Consciousness wavelength. Crystals may be used as an extra transmitter/receiver. You are understanding? They are not a power force as such on their own but they are of great value in lightening the physical atmosphere surrounding Urantia and it”s peoples, yes. Each crystal has it”s own value of transmission. Each person my require differing crystal from each other. You see each person operates on a slightly differing wavelength from another person. This is your individual sound, color, wavelength, yes. Each crystal is capable of transmitting and receiving many wavelengths but you (humankind) must find one that you are comfortable with for yourself. You shall know. Continue Letter.
Finally, I have the sense that some people may be turned off by the idea of “chosen” people. An idea about this concept came to me a few years ago. It”s not so much that God has specifically chosen us, rather that we have chosen God.
I believe the Bible passage that “many are called – few are chosen” should read “many are called – few have chosen.”
It”s all Free Will choice and the ultimate choice is to do our Father”s Will.
Abraham: Yes. If have said many times “few have chosen.” When it becomes the majority Then shall Heaven be on Earth. And these persons who are communicating Helen, have chosen.
Charles: Excuse me Abraham, but the name is Nancy.
Abraham: Nancy!! Helen, yes.
Charles: How would you spell that name please?
Charles: Is that her Soul name Abraham?
Abraham: It must be (note: wistfully!) yes. And you see Helenn these person Ruby, Charles, Martin and Benjamin have chose to be together at this particular journey of life, to undertake this particular mission, yes. Just as I have chosen to do what I am doing. To right wrongs. To set the record straight. To Serve My GOD. continue letter.
Now for the questions, if I may:
1. The Urantia Book mentions that after a dispensation we can be contacted by former planetary mortals (page 1230 – last sentence). Why didn”t Machiventa mention this? It would seem to offer a rather plausible explanation, more so than saying that Abraham is on a special assignment from God. Not to be flip, but his explanation is used by many people claiming all manner of distorted information coming through – supposedly because of their special assignments from God.
Abraham: Yes, Yes, Yes. My Friend/Teacher referred to “God changed the Rules” as explanation for my present assignment, and this is correct. There have been many claims by different personages that they are on special assignment etcetera, etcetera. But when you look into the use of the English language there are many words, but there are not very many choices to describe such an “assignment.” I have been assigned a particular task, which I have requested and have been given permission to carry out this task. So I am on assignment. I would have thought this a fairly reasonable manner in which to describe my return. You see, not all persons you must understand, and I believe it is pertinent at this stage to mention this, that although this present communication is being received by a majority of Urantia Book readers who would understand the expression “dispensation” etcetera, there are other persons receiving who are not readers of the Urantia Book and would be quite unfamiliar with the terminology and would not understand that the end of a dispensation allows my return. I understand your concern regarding the others who have claimed special assignments from God. This has occurred throughout history. There were others at the time Jesus walked the Earth. Your own integrity and wisdom you must rely on to discern which Truth and which is not. I am unable to make you believe. continue letter.
2. I find the idea of the Supreme fascinating. Is the Supreme moving closer to our planet because enough people through their Free will choice have asked for Celestial intervention and help? and does this movement then trigger or activate a whole host of Celestial Beings mustered into service to help us with spiritual upliftment? Is this why so many people seem to be channeling these days? Is the channeling activity from outside sources, peoples own higher selves or both? And how can we test whether we are receiving authentic information or not? Please give succinct information on this.
Abraham: The Correcting Time which is now beginning, correction which is now begun, may last for many years, perhaps a thousand, perhaps more, maybe less in your terms of measurement. This length of the Correcting time is dependent on humankind”s capacity to understand and accept God and be willing for change to occur for Light, Truth and Beauty to reign Supreme on Urantia. At this particular time as the correcting time has begun there are Celestial Beings gathering. they have been gathering, watching, caring for you all for many, many centuries. They wait patient, watchful, careful. There are many persons such as Ruby receiving Higher Consciousness, channeling as you say. It is all part of the correcting time. You must understand the length of time in you years, it could take until the return of the Son of God, Michael. It is unknown to us when this shall occur. It is entirely dependent on humankind. Some persons, to use your word, channeling are receiving Truth. Some person are in touch with Higher Consciousness. Some persons believer they are in touch with Higher Consciousness.
In this instance of communication, this is the process which occurs with Ruby:-
Ruby”s conscious mind is still functioning for herself. She is able to think of herself. Speak for herself if she desires. She is conscious of all present in this room with her. Peripheral sounds she is aware of also, but apart from this Ruby”s Higher Consciousness has linked with the Higher Consciousness that is Abraham, through to my Friend/Teacher Machiventa Melchizedek, through to all the Higher Realms when the necessity arises.
I have said “I cannot make you believe in this communication” you must use your own integrity and wisdom to discern Truth for yourself. I have answered all queries? You required succinct answers, have I explained fully? continue letter.
3. Concerning the Planetary circuits coming back on. What are the ramifications of this fact? What exactly does this entail and how will mortals benefit from this happening? Also what part do Quartz crystals play in this event and is this why crystals are presently finding their way to many people opening up to a more intense spiritual awakening?
Abraham: The ramifications of the turning on of all circuits are diverse, it is not possible to give all information, even I am unaware of many of the ramifications. You see, so much depends on humankind desire, yes. And I believe I have answered the crystal query, there is not need for further explanation.
4. I would like to know, and this seems to be important for my present spiritual path, if Urantia is being visited by humans from other planets, and why have I been given the privilege to see these ships, and what exactly I”m supposed to be getting ready for concerning this matter. Also, is some of what I”m seeing in the sky, Start Students, much like Lena (?) Sadler saw in Chicago?
Abraham: Yes, I am unable to give nay information regarding your experiences, or why you are privileged in these experiences. This may appear “flip” but it is for you to find out for yourself! I am certain you will be able to do this. Some of what you see could indeed be Star Students, some also could indeed be the Watchers. They will advise you if necessary to know. You see there are some informations I am unable to give because it is not the right thing to do. There are some things humankind must still earn for yourselves! Yes.
5. Is there any other message I am to receive at this time?
Abraham: I believe I have given you enough in your name at this time, thank you.
Thank you for the chance to do this. It is my sincere desire that Truth will always be manifest for what is Love and Truth will endure, the rest will fall away Machiventa and Abraham, please know that we welcome you back to Urantia, and thank you for your Guidance and Love. There are still many facts to be considered about this possibility – after all we are human and many of us have had other encounters of this type only to be quite let down. If however, thorough our own gentle inner guidance and our inter-action with the both of you, we are shown that this is in fact truly happening, know that we will work in any way possible to prepare for our most Loved and Adored Michael”s return. In the meantime, we are doing our best to share spiritual Truth as we know it.
Abraham: Yes. I repeat – I am understanding the difficulty humankind face in the seeming onslaught of differing “messages” quotation marks please – therefore, I re-iterate, use your own integrity and wisdom concerning Truth for yourself. I cannot make you believe anything you do not wish to believe. You shall find Truth within yourself. Thank you for your communication Helenn. Shalom Helenn.
End of Letter.
Following is a comment to all:
Then you have no doubt noticed my improved “syntax” and “succinctness”. I have been foraging!! Thank you for your effort in this mission. Shalom.
Note from the Human receiver!
In the first paragraph of the preceding letter you will see the writer had been hoping for some information we had received since 1984. All our note books are at present with Doug Pratt at the University of Waikato Religious Studies department, all the information contained in the note books is at present being put on to Computer, when this has been done it is hoped we will be in a position to send all relevant information to you. Doug”s intention is to remove the chaff from the wheat! as much of the contents relate to very personal “counselling” sessions with Abraham.
Babs Miller (Ruby)